I've also been using manure heavily, it's fantastic. A nearby equine facility used to keep a pile of old stuff, but no more. I get fresh and apply in the fall, as you do, to let it mellow over the winter. Here in central Ohio the soil tends to be clay, especially in building lots which have been graded. The clay needs to have something in it to wick moisture and encourage worms. Manure is my favorite, but I've also used bagged autumn leaves, well-rotted. I got some old dried manure from a barn once, it was like dry peat. It had an _amazing_ amount of viable oat seed in it. - A ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com