Byron and crew, If I remember correctly, I was one of the culprits behind the frozen seed discussion. I'm glad you did your experiment. Exactly how did your freeze your seeds? Did you freeze them in water (frozen mammoth technology) or just toss them into bags and into the freezer? If I remember correctly, the main argument for freezing the seeds was to increase the number of years the seeds might stay viable. It sounds like the germination rate for the freezing method you used didn't work wonders for many of the seeds. I wonder if different methods would prove more reliable. I haven't tried it yet, but just off the top of my head, it would seem there would be less cell damage if the seeds were very dry when frozen. The expansion of the water freezing would probably damage the seeds. No water, no expansion. Also, if the seeds are very dry to begin with there would be much less possiblity of freezer burn. Just some ideas. David Yoshiba David Yoshiba http://www.geocities.com:80/NapaValley/6855/index.html