Thanks GMurray, Dave A. and others, Peter gave me the U of Iowa site, abstract of study done there (Laura Hansen). 19% mortality for larvae force-fed milkweed collected from within Bt cornfields, 0% mortality with no Bt or any other pollen, 3% on open pollinated. Losey at Cornell got a 44% force-fed mortality on moistened and dusted milkweed leaves but he eyeballed the concentration of Bt corn pollen to "look like" the leaves in the field. The Scientist June 7, 1999 Could a diet rich in transgenic corn pollen doom the Monarch butterfly? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Bt or not Bt ... Transgenic Corn vs. Monarch Butterflies Author: Barry A. Palevitz Date: June 7, 1999 '...Still, the Monarch flap may be a tempest in a corncob. Richard Meagher, a professor of genetics at the University of Georgia who genetically modifies plants for bioremediation, thinks Bt critics "have completely lost perspective." Bt crops involve a "couple of orders of magnitude less exposure to toxins" compared to wholesale spraying of fields with conventional insecticides or Bt preparations. Adds Meagher, "There are no perfect solutions, but this is so superior ecologically." Even ecologists and butterfly people admit that Bt is not the main threat to Monarchs. Says Parmesan, "What's causing most change in numbers is habitat loss," particularly in Mexico, where the butterflies migrate. An industry spokesperson was even more blunt: More Monarchs are killed by cars and trucks than by Bt corn. ' With respect to all, Gareth says, I'm willing to wait for the explosion of studies that will likely get many scientists published this (2000) growing season. The strong feelings expressed on the list are, IMnotsohumbleO, decidedly premature whether pro or co(r)n. I'm looking for field vs lab trials, better controls (milkweed collected from the field, rather than hand contaminated), no more guestimates or eyeballing. Since corn pollination generally comes later in the season than Monarch larvae milkweed feeding, field trials would be much better empirical evidence. In the interim, despite claims to the contrary, about 30% of all corn is Bt manipulated so if the news is bad, it will be big, bad news. My fear, like Byron's, has more to do with any wildcard that might alter the environment for Chile growing. I've never ground up dried corn to shake on my food, never munched raw corn for the burn, never made a corn relleno. I love Monarchs, but I'm willing to wait for the science rather than guessing that the sky is falling. Drive carefully. G