Hi Penny in NY Thanks so much for your lengthy description of your setup and restraints with the system. I will show this to DH who has a much greater understanding of this than I (an understatement). I never really thought about the consequences of having this system dug below the soil line in flower beds. As most gardeners are forever moving plants, I guess it would have to lay on top of the soil. Again, so sorry to hear about your hemlocks. What a sin. Most of ours are very old and very tall. The lower limbs have all been removed. Ours do not screen unwanted views. They constantly shed needles and now are shedding perhaps the outer skin (is this possible) of the little cones. I haven't really examined them. I don't recall their having shed this stuff in previous years. The deck is full of this stuff. We also have to remove small dead branches every year from a group of them. We think these trees don't have a long life left because parts of them where the bark is off sound hollow so its just a matter of time. Thanks again Penny for the informative response which I will keep to refer to when the time comes to install a system. Penny >>> penny x stamm <pennyx1@juno.com> 10/09 1:04 AM >>> To Penny in Halifax: We have Natafim soakers in all the shrubbery beds, on a clock with an additional gimmick that cuts it off when it rains. We used to use the black hoses which ooze water, but first of all, the pressure at the beginning of each hose is way more than the pressure at the end of it, so the water was never distributed evenly; and secondly, after about 3 years, we kept getting giant guysers -- holes -- which needed repairing, and every single repair narrowed down the hose interior and lessened the water available! Therefore, we investigated and chose the Netafim which seems very sturdy, and maintains an even water pressure from one end to the other. It comes in 12" emitters, 18", 24", 30", and blank (for getting from one bed to another without wasting water). I chose the 12" type. Water generally reaches about one foot to the left and the right of a line. Some of our lines have never been buried, even in the winter, because stubborn hubby Jimmie was not quite satisfied with the distribution, and we had to be able to see and watch it from above. They generally recommend burying the lines about 3" down from the surface -- it allows a superior distribution pattern. All you need to install this system is: a blow torch for warming the ends of the lines when connecting or turning a corner; a plastic pipe cutter knife; a bunch of right angles, pass-throughs, line close-offs, etc., etc.; a bundle or two of giant hair-pins for hold-downs; a diagram of the area to be watered; and usually, a clock to run it all. Make sure that the blow torch is a modern type, with an instant button igniter. And also: small "bubblers" can be put in line, when really much more water is needed at certain spots (we have none). Also, if your house water pressure runs higher than 45psi, you will beed a pressure regulator to cut it down. We put in all the lines and work except for the clock and the valves to create a self-serve system of 12 zones, connected to the internal water supply system in the house. Therefore by law we were required to install an anti-siphon device. If you attach the setup to an outside water faucet, you won't get separate zones, and there is an ultimate limit to the number of feet which can be on any one line and still serve enough water. You would have to construct a certain number of different hose layouts, and attach them one at a time to the faucet. The clock and valves are cetainly the better way to go! When we blow the Toro lawn lines in November, we also blow the Netafim lines. The Netafim is very strong BUT digging with a shovel in the area will cut a line in half in an instant. ......................................... With the hemlocks: there are ten 25-footers backing up the Japanese garden in a semi-circle. Behind them are the neighbors' 60 ft tall pines, maples, cedars and birches. The hemlocks when invaded by spider mites drop their needles but do not die. The tips of the branches will grow as usual next spring, bringing fresh needles but ONLY to the tips. That's why it will take a number of years for the new growth to cover the trees and hide the now hollow interiors. Penny in NY ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]