[tomato] TMV

Byron (Tomato@GlobalGarden.com)
Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:04:35 -0400


Since our first encounter on CH list about TMV. I have done some

It also seems that if you are an "OLd timer" on the list your word
is taken but a newbie to the list has to prove everything he/she says.

  After posting my Tobacco juice and dishsoap formula, I had some
flames, I had several notes, not a tobacco user but TMV symptoms, 
I had several notes from tobacco users that never had tmv. I had 1 smoker
claim that for 3 generations people on the farm smoked without TMV.
Some of the notes I recieved that had TMV were non-smokers
and did not live anywhere near where tobacco is grown. HOW?
  Another thing that bothered me was the statement of mechanical
and smokers. If it can be transmitted by tools, why does it only mean
tobacco users. If I remember correctly one of these sites says tmv
can also be carried on clothing and by anyone.
IE an non-smoker can pull an infected weed, and then transfer the virus
to veggie plants. Tomatoes, peppers, potatoes and eggplant. 
  One of the flamers mentioned raw tobacco period.
I started searching the net for all the information I could find.
I could not find anything that mentioned Chewing tobacco or snuff
as a source of TMV contanination only smoking tobacco. Question
remains as what's the difference? or was it never studied ?

Now for those that want just a brief acquaintance with this stuff
I will summerise my findings and you can skip the detailed proof.

1. The smokers carrying the infection was an 1898 deduction
   by the founder of TMV.
2. Fact, Anyone or anything touching an infected plant then touching a non-
   infected plant can spread this disease. Including clothes and tools.
3. Fact There are 150 plants that can host TMV including flowers and weeds.
4. Fact there are over 2 dozen strains of TMV. This might explain why your
   particular plant may not look like a few pic's on the net or in the
5. Fact. TMV can live up to 40 years in debris. 
6. Fact TMV can survive on seed coat for up to 4 months. 
7. Fact last year the TMV in U.S. Cig. Tobacco crop was 0.135% 
8. Aphids can carry TMV up to 150ft from source of infection
   on a windless day.
9. Aphids can infect a plant faster than Diazinon can kill them.
10. Chewing insects can also carry the disease.
11. Dishsoap inactivates TMV.
12. At the end of this I will prove that Jerry Bakers Tobacco Juice
bug spray can not spread TMV.

Those are the prime basic's on TMV. Unless you want a lot more hit scroll

One interesting footnote from NCSU. 1 Tomato plant can carry enough TMV
to infect every tobacco plant in North Carolina. 
Though you might enjoy the reverse blame.

Since aphids can transmit the disease. I would suggest walking around your
property, look at all flowers, weeds, trees and shrubs. Remove and burn 
anything that's infected. Remove all old crop debris. After removing this 
stuff shower, change clothes, wash your shoe/boots. Wash any common tools
a 50% bleach solution. Before returning to your garden. 
Now for Margaret and Dave and Steve for whom I must prove every word.

Let me start with a couple introductions from folks that I recieved data

1. Dr. O.W. Barrent, Director of Plant Pathology at NCSU
   Here is his home page. 

2. Dr. John Howell, Plant Pathology at UMASS Amhert


3. Dr Tom Melton

tittle and info.

Tom Melton
Philip Morris Professor and Extension Leader
Department of Plant Pathology
North Carolina State University
Phone: 919.515.2828
Fax:  919.515.7378

I had a site that gave credit to the founder of TMV in 1898 and at the
time the information was it was spread by smokers hands and mechanical
devices. This site is either down or lost in cyberspace. 

Let us start with the virus, host and strains
This site has a lot of photo's of different viruses

Most comprehensive list of viruses and host plants

Information here suggest that there are 150 host plants.

The next item is a listing of viral stains, I guess it's for pathologist
and virologist. The important thing to note here is that there are over
2 dozen different strains of TMV. This might explain why that if you have
TMV it might not look like pictures that you can find.

List of strains

2. VECTORS. For those newbies, this means the methods of the way
   diseases are spread.

UC Davis  Primary source is seed

This site also says seeds prime source


  The virus can live in seed for four months, so unless the
seeds you purchase were grown in the south within a short time of planting,
this should not be a problem. 
John Howell

Now 2 sites that I have claim that TMV can be transmitted by chewing

Fla TMV Big photos' and chewing insects

Fla TMV Big photos' and chewing insects


Info Uconn Aphid disease transmission



O.W. said that TMV was no longer a concern of tobacco growers. Would you
say that TMV has been wiped out in tobacco?

I wouldn't say it was almost wiped out, more that growers don't see it as a
major problem (they have lots of others).  It is not a problem at all in
burley, which is almost half of the US crop.  In flue-cured losses to TMV
for 1998 were 0.27%.

Tom Melton
Philip Morris Professor and Extension Leader
Department of Plant Pathology
North Carolina State University
Phone: 919.515.2828
Fax:  919.515.7378



I know that in The Conn. River Valley there is a lot of tobacco grown
What do you see in the way of TMV


I have seen TMV on peppers,  very rarely (less than half a dozen times in
25 years), and then on bells.  I have never seen it on cherrys or banana
types.  Of course that doesn't mean it wasn't around, but it certainly
hasn't been a major disease for us in Massachusetts and I haven't heard of
serious problems in the northest.


Mr Bromley,
   I have never seen a study done on chewing tobacco or snuff.   Not
sure what the process is.  Will try to find out.
                         O.W. Barnett


AND NOW Margaret for Jerry Bakers Tobacco juice bug spray.

To Byron Bromley,
   There is a Plant Disease Note at the following site:
This one is related to TMV in tobacco but some of the controls should be
OK for peppers.   I would use soap instead of milk where this is
mentioned in the literature as soap inactivates viruses rather than just
inhibiting infection.
       Hope this is helpful,
                     O.W. Barnett

Mr Barnett,

On another part of the NCSU site, there is a statement that soil
soilarization at 125F will also kill TMV.

There is a "Master Garden" by the name of Jerry Baker
who makes a bug spray using tobacco juice, dishsoap
and mouthwash.

The tobacco juice is made by taking 1/3 oz of chewing tobacco
and simmering it for about 10 min. In a gal of water.

The effect is to extract the nicotine.

My question is at the much higher temperature than soil
soilaization, won't this also kill tmv. ?

If thats not enough, 1 cup of this tobacco juice is then mixed
with 1 cup of dishsoap and 1 cup of mouthwash.

1: The simmering should kill TMV
2. The dishsoap also kills TMV
3. The ethanol in the mouthwash should also kill the TMV

What do you think the odds of spreading TMV would be using
this as a bug spray. ?

Thank You

Mr. Bromley,
   TMV is inactivated by heat at 212F in a very short time, around 10
minutes.   You are probably correct that TMV from the tobacco would not
survive in the heated , soap, and alcohol mixture.

                                           O.W. Barnett

Perhaps I was too conservative about the soap.  Certainly with the
simmering, the spray should not spread TMV


AND from a chemist on the CH list.

I concur with Jim on this one after having read the other post.  What is
really the concern is whether the virus (or any virus) remains viable in
the spray concoction after the warm (hot? - simmered?) extraction AND the
presence of the surface active agent (soap!) and the mouthwash (whatever is
in there).

Surfactants can have an effect which far outweighs their concentration
because of their nature and I have mentioned I would not be surprised that
they could interfere with ionic and coordinate type bonds holding virus
particles together  In effect, this would disassemble them and "kill" them.

This may explain the observed success of the Jerry Baker formula.



This should keep you busy for a little while.

I think I have proven my point.

Now my thing is that Jerry Bakers bug spray works great for me. 
YOU do not have to use it. I will send anyone copies of it if they
want it.

Also consider the final quantities of this stuff
0.4 oz dishsoap 0.4 oz mouthwash and 0.4 oz of tobacco juice 
which will be reduced to over 1/10,000th of what a normal
tobacco chewer chews in 1 chaw, diluted in 1 gal of water.
And so far I can not find any proof that this stuff harms worms
bees or predators.

The best site for TomTmv is down this is the only other statement I
have on it.


Mr. Bromley,
  There is some work about tomato mosaic virus being carried from
forests in clouds but no work on infectivity after such transport.   Yes,
inactivate means to kill.  We really do not know all there is to know
about how this virus gets around, why it occurs in some places and not
others.   Sanitation is a major means of control.  Good growers should have
little trouble with the disease or should be able to get rid of it.
                   O.W. Barnett