Grumble Right after I post that I got another note from William Oehlke, who in a major world specialist. He recieved this note. The reason for the ID change is that the Mimas tilia has the "Apple" coloring just before the pupa state ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Byron, I sent the image to Tony Pittaway and he informs me that it is Mimas tilia and not the Smerinthus species I indicated. Tony is based in England and is more familiar with European sphingidae. http://tpittaway.tripod.com/sphinx/m_til.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks for the challange Miss Dewi. I never new that hornworm changed colors and I now know that there are 772 species Lord Byron