I think many of the members of this list know of me. There's me and the wife, called Momma on the lists, and Sleepy D. Shirley, the rat terror (and no, that's not a misspelling.). We garden in Sulphur, Loosiana on a city lot. Veggies in a raised bed that's 16 X 24, other veggies stuffed in wherever there's room, and flower beds and flower trees everywhere else. We have ambitious plans to move all the azaleas in the back yard to one area for a grouping and then convert the over 5000 square feet into herb gardens, perennials, etc with just paths meandering through. Also a small artificial creek about 20 feet long with a pond at each end. As the property slopes to the back it should be interesting. We've been married 37 years come December and come from gardening families so we've been planting and harvesting since we can remember. Is the fact that our pressure canner (21 qt) is 32 years old help with that vision. Our daughter gardens in Splendora, TX where she is a pre-k teacher and also teaches at the community college nearby. Our son works for Harris County, TX (Houston) and he and his wife are expecting their first child, our fourth grandchild. He grows house plants as they live in a duplex and don't have any outside space. Momma does most of the heavy work due to me having severe angina and I grow the herbs, lots of herbs, plus do the carpentry work, the garden planning, cook and can and preserve. Momma's an artist and teacher by trade and I do industrial safety consulting. Sleepy Dawg provides therapy for us both and keeps the varmints out of the garden. George