That's what's so strange about my 'hoyas' -- no way are they vines! They have extremely stiff branching habits, no tendrils at all, and are simply 'plants'. Mine were identified first by my big local nursery, checking their huge photo catalog. Then I sent away to -- is there a Menninger's..? for one, and the tag said 'hoya Carnosa 'shooting star'. That's all I know about it. Now we could talk about my Clerodendron -- now that's a lovely vining plant with beautiful flowers. Anybody have one? Penny, NY _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]