Gayle wrote: I dooo have a project for the front lawn - a flower bed. I have a rise in my lawn about 2 feet that is just crying for a retaining wall flower bed about 15 feet long, 2 feet high and 3-4 feet wide. Hmmmmmmm I wonder ? Do we have time. Glenn would KILL me!! BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! Gayle - my vote is easy. Go for making the new bed; after all a bed made in the fall allows time for the freeze/thaw cycles to really break up the clods and work magic ahead of time for spring. One suggestion: when you break the news to Glenn, run like hell!!! <bg> Catharine/zone 7b/Atlanta