So what are you doing for the winter solstice? It's sunrise 12.20.98 You might enjoy these websites http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~aburnham/ring/ Have fun Matt Trahan <matttrahan@ecsu.campus.mci.net> or <garden@juno.com> USDA zone 8, AHS heat zone 7, Sunset zone 31, northeastern N.C.