. Ron, Rhodies won't grow in Chicago where one daughter lives, nor in St.Louis, where another one lives. In the suburbs just north of Chicago city, everyone's landscaping is identical. They deep sculpture hedges of what looks like ilex. No variety whatsoever. OTOH, since I designed the tiny front garden at daughter's house, at least we did put in some junipers, two cypress, a small holly, a small white pine, and a bird's nest spruce. She has the one and only 2-story colonial on the block; everything else is 1-story. And there happen to be several enormous cottonwood trees front and back, which give the place an air of grace. We made a safari out to all the nurseries in that area, and finally found one kind of rhodie, Nova Zembla, a medium dark red -- but the nursery said don't buy them, for they will not survive Chicago's very high winds. They should only be planted far to the west of Lake Michigan... Azaleas, none. But lilacs -- yes! They have no trouble thriving. The St.Louis house has redbud trees in a row, all along the right side. There are two enormous, healthy holly trees flanking the old-fashioned brick porch. Instead of foundation planting, she regularly planted annuals in front of the house, and up alongside the front sidewalk. The house had an impenetrable overgrown brick-walled back garden, circa 1910, so we sent her a "come-along" from Sears, Roebuck, climbed on a plane with work clothes, and the 3 of us dug out dozens upon dozens of what they call "stink trees", while I especially hacked away with giant clippers at whatever bushes I could recognize underneath the brush. In the end we discovered a brick lined path, a bird bath, and 3 rose bushes surviving total neglect. She searched the nurseries and discovered two rhododendrons which she grabbed and planted in the ivy smothered ground. Azaleas refused to grow on her side of the street. Now that's a hot one! You could see a few of them on the East side, but none at all on the West! The rhodies survived protected by the brick wall and the overhead leaf cover, but never grew very big. ................... I don't worry about being battered and bruised, Ron. At my age, I don't have to walk down the ramp to show off my bikini (or whatever) ... My #2 daughter is turning 50, and NOW she tells me that she used to be mortified when I picked her up at school, and I would be wearing her Dad's old Army pants held up with a piece of clothes line.... . . Penny, NY ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.