Re: [gardeners] toxic marsh
Annetta Green (gardeners@globalgarden.com)
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:42:58 -0400
> Isn't the flooding of the land letting the toxins get into the water
column
> there?
George,
That I am not sure about. I know they are testing the water at numerous
wells that have been dug around the new marshland. The state bought more
land than is being flooded just for that reason. So far there is no sign of
toxins in well water that is being reported. Part of the reason for the
marsh rebuilding is to use it as a filter to keep our aquifer clean, as well
as the lake it is associated with. They felt that having the effluents
percolate through the marshland before reaching the lake and the aquifer
will keep water quality up.
Farther north there is signs of toxins that have made it into well water,
but that has been directly followed back to another source.
Anne in FL
zone 9b, sunset 26
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [gardeners] toxic marsh
> There has also been a disease affecting birds in the south, including
Florida,
> IIRC. Whatever is affecting the birds immediately is probably not DDT but
> something else that was used later. Some of the old time(and new time too)
> farmers have used some pretty potent toxins on their land. If the birds
were
> dying pretty quickly it was something with an acute action versus chronic
for
> DDT. Pretty bad either way.
>
> Isn't the flooding of the land letting the toxins get into the water
column
> there?
>
> George
>
> Annetta Green wrote:
> >
> > George,
> > The part about not dredging I can fully understand. The last thing they
> > want to do is stir it up and put that stuff in the food chain. Here
they
> > are doing their best to turn dry land back into marsh. As they add the
> > water it seems to be stirring the bad stuff up, where fish are absorbing
it,
> > and birds are eating it. What is surprising is that the fish kills have
not
> > been as severe as the bird kills. The young and eggs may still be
effected,
> > time will tell. For a while there, it seemed that the birds were
falling
> > out of the sky. It did take a while for the problem to show up. The
land
> > was flooded in the spring of 2000, the birds started dying at the end
of
> > that summer. There were a lot of theories about what was doing the
dirty
> > work. It seems that it can almost all be traced back to contaminated
soil
> > under the water. The soil cleared was mostly around where old barns or
> > equipment storage/staging areas were located. Now that a good amount of
> > that has been hauled away, they are saying that it will be better this
time.
> > Anne in FL
> > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
> > To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [gardeners] intro
> >
> > > I'm not sure on the DDT, do know it has a long half-life but will
> > eventually
> > > dilute out. I didn't know the residue of DDT in the soil would kill
the
> > birds
> > > immediately though, thought it was more a pattern of ingesting food
> > contaminated
> > > with DDT and then laying thin-shelled eggs. Hmm, might have to look
some
> > of that
> > > up. Been a long time. Repeated flooding will dilute it as long as the
> > toxin is
> > > dilutable. There is a bayou near here that the bottom sediment profile
> > shows
> > > more than 256 heavy metals and chemicals, some of which have been
there
> > for 50
> > > or 60 years, much of it from agriculture run-off. EPA refuses to
dredge to
> > get
> > > rid of the sediment because of the fear it will end up in the water
> > column.
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> > > Annetta Green wrote:
> > > >
> > > > George,
> > > > what is the half life of DDT? How long can it sit in the ground and
be
> > a
> > > > viable poison? The research, by state scientists, is showing that
the
> > toxic
> > > > levels of the farm chemicals, most outlawed now, are what is/has
been
> > > > killing the birds. They found very high levels in the soil, water
and
> > > > birds. They have been trucking out the worst of the soil and are
now
> > trying
> > > > to let it flood again. I think they are also hoping that the second
> > > > flooding will dissipate even more of the chemicals to acceptable
levels
> > in
> > > > the water.
> > > > Anne in FL
> > > > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
> > > > To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:28 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [gardeners] intro
> > > >
> > > > > Most of that original marshland was turned into farmland in the
> > twenties
> > > > and
> > > > > thirties though Anne. No controls at all until the fifties on
> > pesticides
> > > > and
> > > > > other cides. I would still find it hard to believe that there was
> > anything
> > > > still
> > > > > there that would kill birds after all those years. We're often to
> > quick to
> > > > blame
> > > > > the farmer or industry when it may be something else that no one
has
> > > > delved into
> > > > > deeply enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > George
> > > > >
> > > > > Annetta Green wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > OG magazine warns against Roundup--Monsanto's claims to the
> > > > contrary, it
> > > > > > > > does wind up in the water.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At the risk of sounding "anti-organic" (which I'm not), to my
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > > Monsanto has never made any claims that Roundup cannot leach
into
> > > > water
> > > > > > > supplies. The fact is that glyphosate is highly adsorbed by
most
> > > > soils,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > typically only very small amounts, if any, leach into
groundwater
> > when
> > > > > > > properly used. Even when some makes it into water bodies, it
is
> > > > further
> > > > > > > adsorbed and tightly bound to any organic matter in the water,
> > where
> > > > it is
> > > > > > > broken down via microbes in a few weeks' time. Because it
breaks
> > down,
> > > > > > > there's no bioaccumulation (as with DDT, PCP, etc).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I rarely use the stuff myself, but when I need to, such as on
> > poison
> > > > ivy
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > did the poster of the above quote, I dont think it's polluting
the
> > > > water.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > don't think even Greenpeace cites glyphosate as a water
pollutant
> > > > hazard.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dan Dixon
> > > > > > While not totally organic myself, I have found that we need to
worry
> > > > more
> > > > > > about overuse, or use outside of the recomended limits. As with
> > most
> > > > > > chemicals there is that chance that it will be abused. Look at
the
> > new
> > > > > > marshland that is being set up here in FL. The govt bought the
farm
> > > > land
> > > > > > that, generations ago, used to be marshand and started to fill
it
> > with
> > > > > > water. Over the years there had been so many chemical and
> > fertilizer
> > > > spills
> > > > > > that the land was toxic to the native species they wanted to
> > attract.
> > > > The
> > > > > > bird kills we had last year were the result of that. Millions
of
> > tons
> > > > of
> > > > > > soil have been removed and the state is ready to try again.
This
> > time
> > > > they
> > > > > > are going slower and testing soil and water as the water line
> > changes
> > > > and
> > > > > > fills in. Not sure where all the money is coming from, but some
of
> > the
> > > > > > labor is volunteer, as is some of the testing being done by
local
> > > > companies
> > > > > > who want to see this work. The marsh once returned to it's
former
> > glory
> > > > > > will be a beautiful thing.
> > > > > > Anne in FL
> > > > > > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>