Re: [gardeners] toxic marsh
George Shirley (gardeners@globalgarden.com)
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:30:29 -0500
Yeah, there are several places on the West Coast, can't remember exactly where,
that have built artificial marshes and are running their sewer treatment
effluent through there. It supposedly comes out the other end clean enough to
drink and then runs off into a river. Saw a show about it on Discovery and it
looked intriguing as a cheaper method of treating stormwater and sewer treatment
effluent. Also showed a house that had a greenhouse attached along the south
wall that all household water, grey or black ran through troughs in it. Narrator
said there was no odor and the water came out the other end and was used to
irrigate gardens and lawn, some was used for edible plants. Florida may actually
be on the right track again. Was pleased to see that a number of the drainage
canals dug into the Everglades years ago are being filled in again. I think the
Feds and the Florida government are finally realizing that all that good
drinking water in the aquifers there is being filtered through the glades and a
lot of limestone.
George
Annetta Green wrote:
>
> > Isn't the flooding of the land letting the toxins get into the water
> column
> > there?
> George,
> That I am not sure about. I know they are testing the water at numerous
> wells that have been dug around the new marshland. The state bought more
> land than is being flooded just for that reason. So far there is no sign of
> toxins in well water that is being reported. Part of the reason for the
> marsh rebuilding is to use it as a filter to keep our aquifer clean, as well
> as the lake it is associated with. They felt that having the effluents
> percolate through the marshland before reaching the lake and the aquifer
> will keep water quality up.
>
> Farther north there is signs of toxins that have made it into well water,
> but that has been directly followed back to another source.
> Anne in FL
> zone 9b, sunset 26
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
> To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [gardeners] toxic marsh
>
> > There has also been a disease affecting birds in the south, including
> Florida,
> > IIRC. Whatever is affecting the birds immediately is probably not DDT but
> > something else that was used later. Some of the old time(and new time too)
> > farmers have used some pretty potent toxins on their land. If the birds
> were
> > dying pretty quickly it was something with an acute action versus chronic
> for
> > DDT. Pretty bad either way.
> >
> > Isn't the flooding of the land letting the toxins get into the water
> column
> > there?
> >
> > George
> >
> > Annetta Green wrote:
> > >
> > > George,
> > > The part about not dredging I can fully understand. The last thing they
> > > want to do is stir it up and put that stuff in the food chain. Here
> they
> > > are doing their best to turn dry land back into marsh. As they add the
> > > water it seems to be stirring the bad stuff up, where fish are absorbing
> it,
> > > and birds are eating it. What is surprising is that the fish kills have
> not
> > > been as severe as the bird kills. The young and eggs may still be
> effected,
> > > time will tell. For a while there, it seemed that the birds were
> falling
> > > out of the sky. It did take a while for the problem to show up. The
> land
> > > was flooded in the spring of 2000, the birds started dying at the end
> of
> > > that summer. There were a lot of theories about what was doing the
> dirty
> > > work. It seems that it can almost all be traced back to contaminated
> soil
> > > under the water. The soil cleared was mostly around where old barns or
> > > equipment storage/staging areas were located. Now that a good amount of
> > > that has been hauled away, they are saying that it will be better this
> time.
> > > Anne in FL
> > > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
> > > To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [gardeners] intro
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure on the DDT, do know it has a long half-life but will
> > > eventually
> > > > dilute out. I didn't know the residue of DDT in the soil would kill
> the
> > > birds
> > > > immediately though, thought it was more a pattern of ingesting food
> > > contaminated
> > > > with DDT and then laying thin-shelled eggs. Hmm, might have to look
> some
> > > of that
> > > > up. Been a long time. Repeated flooding will dilute it as long as the
> > > toxin is
> > > > dilutable. There is a bayou near here that the bottom sediment profile
> > > shows
> > > > more than 256 heavy metals and chemicals, some of which have been
> there
> > > for 50
> > > > or 60 years, much of it from agriculture run-off. EPA refuses to
> dredge to
> > > get
> > > > rid of the sediment because of the fear it will end up in the water
> > > column.
> > > >
> > > > George
> > > >
> > > > Annetta Green wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > George,
> > > > > what is the half life of DDT? How long can it sit in the ground and
> be
> > > a
> > > > > viable poison? The research, by state scientists, is showing that
> the
> > > toxic
> > > > > levels of the farm chemicals, most outlawed now, are what is/has
> been
> > > > > killing the birds. They found very high levels in the soil, water
> and
> > > > > birds. They have been trucking out the worst of the soil and are
> now
> > > trying
> > > > > to let it flood again. I think they are also hoping that the second
> > > > > flooding will dissipate even more of the chemicals to acceptable
> levels
> > > in
> > > > > the water.
> > > > > Anne in FL
> > > > > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "George Shirley" <gshirl@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > To: <gardeners@globalgarden.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:28 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [gardeners] intro
> > > > >
> > > > > > Most of that original marshland was turned into farmland in the
> > > twenties
> > > > > and
> > > > > > thirties though Anne. No controls at all until the fifties on
> > > pesticides
> > > > > and
> > > > > > other cides. I would still find it hard to believe that there was
> > > anything
> > > > > still
> > > > > > there that would kill birds after all those years. We're often to
> > > quick to
> > > > > blame
> > > > > > the farmer or industry when it may be something else that no one
> has
> > > > > delved into
> > > > > > deeply enough.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Annetta Green wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OG magazine warns against Roundup--Monsanto's claims to the
> > > > > contrary, it
> > > > > > > > > does wind up in the water.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At the risk of sounding "anti-organic" (which I'm not), to my
> > > > > knowledge
> > > > > > > > Monsanto has never made any claims that Roundup cannot leach
> into
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > > supplies. The fact is that glyphosate is highly adsorbed by
> most
> > > > > soils,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > typically only very small amounts, if any, leach into
> groundwater
> > > when
> > > > > > > > properly used. Even when some makes it into water bodies, it
> is
> > > > > further
> > > > > > > > adsorbed and tightly bound to any organic matter in the water,
> > > where
> > > > > it is
> > > > > > > > broken down via microbes in a few weeks' time. Because it
> breaks
> > > down,
> > > > > > > > there's no bioaccumulation (as with DDT, PCP, etc).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I rarely use the stuff myself, but when I need to, such as on
> > > poison
> > > > > ivy
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > did the poster of the above quote, I dont think it's polluting
> the
> > > > > water.
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > don't think even Greenpeace cites glyphosate as a water
> pollutant
> > > > > hazard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dan Dixon
> > > > > > > While not totally organic myself, I have found that we need to
> worry
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > about overuse, or use outside of the recomended limits. As with
> > > most
> > > > > > > chemicals there is that chance that it will be abused. Look at
> the
> > > new
> > > > > > > marshland that is being set up here in FL. The govt bought the
> farm
> > > > > land
> > > > > > > that, generations ago, used to be marshand and started to fill
> it
> > > with
> > > > > > > water. Over the years there had been so many chemical and
> > > fertilizer
> > > > > spills
> > > > > > > that the land was toxic to the native species they wanted to
> > > attract.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > bird kills we had last year were the result of that. Millions
> of
> > > tons
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > soil have been removed and the state is ready to try again.
> This
> > > time
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > are going slower and testing soil and water as the water line
> > > changes
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > fills in. Not sure where all the money is coming from, but some
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > labor is volunteer, as is some of the testing being done by
> local
> > > > > companies
> > > > > > > who want to see this work. The marsh once returned to it's
> former
> > > glory
> > > > > > > will be a beautiful thing.
> > > > > > > Anne in FL
> > > > > > > zone 9b, sunset 26
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >