Rosemary, I totally forgot to set the stage properly! Amongst the 12 folk now getting ready for the trip to New Jersey for Thanksgiving, are: 1 @ 93 1 @ 92 1 @ 91 1 @ 83 1 @ 81 1 @ 78 1 @ 58 1 @ 56 1 @ 46 1 @ 20 1 @ 18 ------------- 11 ..........................................well ! That makes 11 in my school books -- ! The host & hostess have become strict vegetarians this year, and their kids return to college right away, so Jimmie has <sigh> high hopes for some of the trimmin's .. Last year we happily had 6 more of the younger generation, but this year they're not available. I shall miss my own kids.. I understand what you are saying about the dogs LIKING the cages. And I agree with you that they should never be used as punishment, but our cousin is not a natural-born pet lover, and so he obviously uses the cage without thinking it thru. Thank you for the explanation! Penny, NY . ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com