Hi Louis, >> I am not interested, however, in finding out how I am being duped by big business or some other nebulous force when I don't mind spending a few bucks for the convince of buying seeds or plants.<< Your lack of interest in preserving germ plasm that has evolved over centuries in opposition to utilizing that which is easiest for the moment, seems frivolous. The baby boomer generation seems beset with those who think only of "me" and "now". Extinct is forever and even the hybridizers must have stable germ plasm from which to work. To cite an example, a mule is a hybrid and if mules are to continue to exist past the current generation, somebody must continue to raise the horses and donkeys which are crossed to create the mule. Your few bucks for convenience are financing the destruction of the very foundation on which gardening was developed. This invites going back to the "hunter/gatherer stage in the evolution of mankind. As far as the perpetrators being some "nebulous" force, I submit such companies as Ceiba/Geigy, Shell, and Volvo as three of the top ten in infamy. Do you consider those behamothe nebulous? Companies of this magnitude have the ability to "pull the wool over the eyes" of the majority of readers. After all of my research I must admit to falling for Burpees pitch about 4th of July and once again I was disappointed. To continue with ones head in the sand is to march with the crowd as our genetic base is eroded by those who are only interested in money now. On the other hand, it has been said that "where ignorance is bliss.'tis folly to be wise," I hope we woke you up! <G> Stabilazation of a variety involves starting woth about two dozen plants from f2 seed, collected from a hybrid fruit. From these plants, collect seed from the one that most closely resemples the original. Continue this winnowing process until all plants are edenticalfor three generations and you can consider yourself to have a stable variety. This is the lengthy although vital step that the seed barons have ignored. When they decide to drop a seed it becomes EXTINCT as in for ever and that can very well cost us our food crops worldwide. Steve Parton of Melbourne, Australia and myself are currently trying to stabilize "Firefox" a nice Aussie hybrid and are looking good at ehe fifth generation. I may be able to present that one in a year or so since combining Steve's two seasons per year with my single one at the opposte time as his will let us get three generations per year. I know that taste is an individual thing and readily admit that if we all had the same tastes, every manin town would be chasing my wife. To document what the usual taste preference is, I would like to relate an experiance with a garden center here in Baltimore. In 1997 I offered 200 heirloom transplants there and, with some difficulty, managed to sell them. In 1998 I offered 2,000 plants and all were sold in the first week! Personal satisfaction and word of mouth had increased demand to that extent. I could have probably sold 5,000. Good gardening, Chuck Wyatt