Hi Greg, table of inheritance characteristics in tomato. These may be useful in helping to layout your attack. Fruit size D(ominant) small fruit --- R(ecessive) large fruit Fruit shape D round --- R oval D oval --- R pear Locules D 2-3 locules --- R 3.5 locules Fruit colour D red --- R yellow Hairiness of fruit D hairy --- R smooth inflorescence (flower truss) D simple --- R compound Chuck Wyatt has said how many generations of selfing are needed to stabilize a cross. Was it 3 to 5 Chuck? I think it might be interesting to try crossing too. Our problem here is the cool summers. Stupice is good but perhaps there are others that could add even more variety with it's (Stupice) appropriateness for our local climate. Some of the complaints about hybrids are about their tastelessness and toughness. I'll bet 'tastelessness' was just an ignored goal but toughness was probably bred into them for shipping. Hybrids can be bred for any of the characteristics inherent in 'tomato-ness'! It is just reshuffling the cards. In this country it is the growers and not the consumers that get to choose the varieties offered! One of the big selling points of Shepherd's Seeds is that they search for the most flavorful varieties. The French have a reputation for demanding flavor in their vegetable produce. The blueberry "Herbert" is a blueberry that will never make it on the commercial circuit because, even though it has wonderful flavor, it tears when it is picked so it does not make a good shipper. It is tremendous for the home garden however. I'm sure there are similar stories for tomatoes too. This has been my point before on this list. Hybrids are not inherently bad. If you don't like the product then you simply don't agree with the goals of the hybridizer. Breeding varieties and selecting for local climates make sense in a country with as much diversity climate-wise as we have. Sincerely, Louis Mensing