Hi Byron Have enjoyed reading your posts. Cuyrious however when you say that wood ash and lime will lower the ph by a point. I know that lime ups the ph and was always under the impression that wood ash did the same. I've acidic soil and have been dumping wood ash on the gardens for the last 6 or 7 years assuming it will help to sweeten the soil. Penny Nielsenp@gov.ns.ca Halifax, Nova Scotia, Zone 5/6a http://explore.gov.ns.ca/ >>> "Byron.Bromley" <Byron.Bromley@Gsd-Co.Com> 03/09/99 09:17AM >>> One of pet peeves You have some control by placing collars around larger plants What about small plants like carrot and beet ? And you don't have the room for Plant one for the cutworm one for the crow one to die one to grow George has an opportunity to till in the dead of winter, what about those who have 3 ft of snow on top of the ground and 3 to 4 ft of frozen ground underneath. And those that live west of the Mississippi also don't have another underground bug called wireworm, which is the larva of a Click Beetle which chews on the small feeder roots of all plants. The only OG control I have seen on this on is 2 handfulls of wood ash and 2 handfulls of lime in 5 gal of water to cover 5 sq ft. By the time you do that you have made you soil more acidic by almost a full pH point. Enough to kill a lot of veggie plants. This is where me and OG part company Byron