How about this, because he is old. If you want to put it in his 'old man' terms and his exact words he would say." Aw, L, that !@#$ ground don't needed a !@#$$ thing. I grew cotton on ground just like that when I was a kid. I'm not rich I don't need to spend no *@#$% money on nothing to put in there in the first place. Just throw a shovel of cow __ on it and it will be just fine! Oh yes, don't forget the shovel of cow has burmuda grass sprouts in it. LOL At this point in his life you don't normally tell him much of anything. Usually you just try to do something when he isn't looking. He thought he was getting great dirt when he told my son to get a few front end loaders full dirt out of the bar ditch! (The ditch the water drains into on the road that is full of sandy clay) They didn't ask me when they put dirt in those planting areas. You might be shocked how much cottonseed hulls or whatever it takes to compensate for that clay in there. I usually go through in the spring and at least try to sneak something in around the transplants I put in. Maybe some day before they die I will finally get the soil not so clayish. Ranchmama Okie zone 7a *********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bargyla Rateaver" <brateaver@earthlink.net> > why not just amend the soil, TO START, until it is fluffy and able to hold water > properly and yet drain correctly. I always wonder why it is so very hard to get > anyone to see that the very first thing to do is to amend all the soil in the > entire yard FIRST. Then there will never again be problems of soil conditions.